Online shopping tips.

[Sir Trevor]

Just realized this would be a good topic to post here.
Due to the unusual nature of many of the items we need/want for faire, we tend to have to get a lot of items mail-order when faire is not going on.

Online shopping can be great.
You can find just about anything you could ever imagine online.
And you can find some awesome vendors, or get items from our faire vendors during the off season.
You can even find some great deals.

But there can be problems as well.

I have been buying and selling online since 2000. Both on ebay and from websites. So I have experience from both sides of the counter. I also worked shipping/receiving at a factory for 14 years, so I got very familiar with shipping methods and how well they do what they say they do.
Luckily most of my transactions have been great, But I have heard horror stories from others, and I have done a lot of research in order to better understand what can and does go wrong, and why.

I figure it might help to share some of my knowledge, and get some input from others as well.
With a good idea of what to expect, and some things to watch out for, hopefully your experiences will be good as well.

[Sir Trevor]

One of the first things to help make a transaction go smoothly, is to go into it with reasonable expectations.
By this, I mean, you have to allow time for the package to get to you.

Getting an item in a week or less is excellent service.
1 week to 2 weeks is about standard. And shows the vendor is competent and on top of things.
2 weeks to a month is actually good time if it is a large or heavy object, but is not a good sign with normal sized packages.
These times are assuming the item is in stock and ready to send at the time of purchase.
If it is a custom item, or something that needs assembled or is not in stock, then all bets are off.

Here is a little look at why these times are what they are.
A transaction works like this.
You order the item. The vendor receives the order, and the payment. The vendor then packages the item and either has the shipping company pick it up, or they have to take it someplace to ship it. The shipping company sends the item to the buyers address.

As you can see, there are a few steps here. I have actually encountered people who have paid for an item on Thursday night, and emailed me when the mail arrived at their house on Friday, and the package wasn't there
First of all, online shopping is a lot like banking. Transactions after a certain hour go on the next days business. If you order something after a certain time your order is not going to get processed until the next day. Or it is too late for the vendor to ship the item.
Most don't even ship every day of the week. Some only ship once a week (hey, gas is expensive and it makes more sense to mail a few packages all at once, than to run to the post office a few times a week with only one package each time). Read the terms on their site to get an idea.
Most of the types of places we would be buying from, are small businesses. There are not employees monitoring emails/orders 24/7. The owner/opperator/artisan checks his email a few times during certain hours, and that's about it.
Then while doing everything else that needs done, they process the order. Go get the item from where ever it is stored. Package it up. And ship it.
This can all be done in one day, and if transit time is short, you will have it less than a week.
If they are busy with a lot of orders, or worse yet, working one or more faires at the time, it can take a few days. (which is why 2 weeks is not unusual, and is completely acceptable)

[Sir Trevor]

Now lets take a look at the different types of shipping.
There is a wide variety.

The big boys in the package delivery field are
USPS (United States Post Office)
UPS (United Parcel Service)
FedEx
DHL

All have different levels of service. The more demanding the service, the more it will cost.
Also the larger, heavier and farther you get, the more the price goes up.
All have certain strenghts and weaknesses.

USPS - the best all around service out there. They deliver everywhere. Their prices are not bad compaired to the others most of the time. Generally the packages don't get abused too much. Usually transit times aren't too bad. Though almost all service levels are estimated delivery time. Meaning priority mail should get there in 3 days or so, but if it takes 2-3 weeks, they won't accept any responsibility

UPS - second best in my book. Prices are higher than USPS on smaller packages, but better on larger ones. Will deliver most places, but not PO boxes, and some rural areas take an extra day or two (even with some of their guaranteed services).
Some times they deliver very late. I have gotten packages dropped on my porch at 10 PM at night. Also they tend to abuse packages a little more than the USPS and are much harder to collect insurance claims from.

FedEx - air delivery is quite a bit more expensive, but much more timely. Ground service is fairly cheap, but is a mixed bag depending on the delivery driver. Their ground drivers are independant contractors, not employees. Meaning they get paid by what they deliver. So if they have a bunch of stuff going to one area of their route, and only a package or two to another area of their route, they may hold off on those until the next day in hopes of having more to deliver there. Also, they are none-too-gentle with a lot of what they handle.

DHL - never really used them but from what I have seen and heard I can say this much. Their prices are pretty good, if they deliver in your area. They don't deliver to anywhere near as many places as any of the other 3. And in some areas they don't deliver at all, under any circumstances. And in others, they hand off the packages to another company to deliver for them.


If you end up having trouble with the delivery company, don't hold it against the vendor. If they got the package out in a timely manner and the delivery company takes forever to get it to you, it really isn't the vendors fault.
Judge the vendor by how they handle the situation.

[Sir Trevor]

This one is a little trickier to quantify.
Idealy, a good online retailer will keep you informed of what is going on with the transaction.
Acknowledge the order.
Let you know when it ships.
Answer questions in a timely manner.

Realistically you can probably expect a mixed bag.
They will probably send an email letting you know they got the order. And will answer your emails in a few days.

If you are ordering from a real artisan who is a one man business, you may wait a while for a reply.
It's an unwritten law.
The more tallented and gifted an artisan is, the worse his social and business skills will be.
There are exceptions of course, but it is pretty much universal, no matter what circle of interest you are dealing with.

You can get some of the most beautiful and exquisite work you have ever seen. But you will probably rarely get an update on the work, and may have to wait a while to get it.
The same can be said for stuff that you find for really low prices.
They are usually so busy cranking things out just trying to make enough to live on, or they are doing it as a side line after working a real job 40 hours a week, that they don't have time to answer, or actually hit delivery schedules.

Only you can determine what level of service is acceptable for you.
Depending on workmanship or price.

[Sir Trevor]

Some things to keep an eye out for when looking over someones website.
Check to see what their normal shipping times are.
If they say something like "most items ship in 2 days"
You may want to check and see if your item falls into the "most items" catagory.

Look for statements about item availabilty.
I have noticed on a lot of clothing and leather sites, that a lot of items aren't actually on hand, and need to be made up when the order is placed.
It kind of makes sense, as the wide variety of sizes, colors, styles, and combinations make for better shopping. And keeping eveything of every size on hand would be financial suicide.
But be aware of it. If you want it for a faire day in 2 weeks, and they still have to make it. You probably aren't going to get it on time.

Along those lines as well. Watch out for statements about, or signs that they might use drop shippers.
Some of the signs.
If it looks like it's made in china, it probably is.
If it is priced like it is made in china, it probably is.
If they say they don't make it, but are still offering it for sale, they are probably ordering it when you place your order.

Here is why you want to watch out for drop shippers.
Most vendors have no control over drop shipments.
They order the item when they receive the order from the customer. The order goes to the drop shipper. Who then gets the item and ships it to the customer.
If it is out of stock, they will send it when they get another shipment in.
If they don't get it out in a certain time frame, so what?
It doesn't affect them. The customer thinks it is coming from Vendor A, not Dropshipper B. So they will blame Vendor A for the hold up.
Vendor A can threaten to not give business to Dropshipper B anymore, but unless they account for a large percentage of Dropshipper B's sales, it really isn't going to hurt them. They probably have hundreds of other businesses ordering from them.

Now, that isn't to say to avoid everything handled by drop shippers.
You just need to be aware of the situation, and the fact that there is another layer of transactions involved that can complicate and delay things. It still might be an acceptable hastle if the price is right.

Keep an eye on the shipping costs.
Figure those in to the total price of the transaction.
Watch for people that look to make a large part of their profit from the shipping fees after tempting you in with a really low pricetag on the item itself. Especially true of ebay sellers.
The total price may still be a good deal, but figure all costs before decideing if it really is a good deal for you.
On the flip side. Realize that the shipping costs involve more than just the postage fee. I had a buyer complain once because I charged $4 for shipping. When they got the package they saw the postage cost was only $3.50. They didn't think it was fair that I charged them 50 cents more than what it cost.
Of course, they couldn't understand the whole concept of supplying the packaging, the tape, packing materials, the address label, the cost of going to the post office, and the time involved in doing all this.
That is why most shipping fees cover shipping and handling.
On standard items that don't require a lot of extra attention, a dollar or two is very reasonable for a handling fee.
If it is something fragile that will take some special attention to packing and packaging, then up to $5 handling would probably be reasonable.
Just something to keep in mind when you are scratching your head at a vendors stated shipping fees.

[Sir Trevor]

Anyone else want to throw their 2 cents in?
Feel free.

[Lady Catharine]

You're doing a pretty good job.

[CelticWench]

Buying any clothing or footwear without trying it on first can be a crapshoot, and it is even more so when dealing with faire garb. "Sizing" as we understand it is often tossed out the window when it comes to things like medieval boots and bodices!

From my own experiences:
- beware of anything that is ridiculously cheap. A $20 corset will probably be crap....unless, of course, you've stumbled on a rookie eBay seller who doesn't know what they've got or doesn't have the feedback to get bids at a higher price.
- pay attention to how things are sized. And know your own TRUE measurements. For ladies, the number part of your bra size is typically NOT the measurement you need to get a correctly-fitted bodice or corset. If you are having something custom made, don't fudge on those measurements either! Follow the vendor's directions, measure twice or more, and if you have questions, ASK.
- to follow that, communication goes both ways. Tell the vendor exactly what you're expecting, and hopefully they'll tell you honestly if they can meet that expectation.
- try to deal with vendors who will make alterations or accept returns if things don't fit correctly when you receive them. Explain fitting problems as clearly and thoroughly as you can - email pics.

[Athena]

admin said:

First of all, online shopping is a lot like banking. Transactions after a certain hour go on the next days business. If you order something after a certain time your order is not going to get processed until the next day. Or it is too late for the vendor to ship the item.
Most don't even ship every day of the week. Some only ship once a week (hey, gas is expensive and it makes more sense to mail a few packages all at once, than to run to the post office a few times a week with only one package each time). Read the terms on their site to get an idea.
Most of the types of places we would be buying from, are small businesses. There are not employees monitoring emails/orders 24/7. The owner/opperator/artisan checks his email a few times during certain hours, and that's about it.
Then while doing everything else that needs done, they process the order. Go get the item from where ever it is stored. Package it up. And ship it.
This can all be done in one day, and if transit time is short, you will have it less than a week.
If they are busy with a lot of orders, or worse yet, working one or more faires at the time, it can take a few days. (which is why 2 weeks is not unusual, and is completely acceptable)

What if it's an extended period of time, say more than 30 days?
I have a situation right now where I'm waiting on an item I ordered a month ago. It's from a small family run business that was recommended to me a while back by someone I trust, so I'm assuming they're a reputable company. I'm also taking that this is faire season into consideration, so they may be inundated with orders.

That being said, my big issue is communication. When I ordered from them, I got a confirmation email with my payment info and order number, and haven't heard anything since. I sent them an email last week inquiring about my order status and am still waiting for a reply.

My question is, If I don't hear from them when should I send a follow up email? I'm a patient person, but all I ask is for decent communication.

I wish I would have gotten a second and even third opinion on this vendor, and urge everyone else to do the same. Do your research before ordering! I highly recommend Ebay for garb. That's where I get most of mine and I've always had positive experiences. You can see the seller's feedback, detailed photos of the items they sell, and at least have some kind of clue for what to expect. Also, remember that if you order during faire season, you may have a longer wait.

[Sir Trevor]

Do you happen to have a phone number for them?
Might get a responce from that.
Some people suck at returning emails but are great at answering their phones (I am the complete opposite)

I would definitely send a follow up email sometime this week if you have been waiting over a week for a reply.

[countessofmidnight]

---My daughter Jess & I have purchased some Fabulous Stuff for Bellydancing by using "E bay". We have had things shipped from Sellers in the Middle East and Russia, and China. And, it been our experience that the International Sellers seem to try harder...

---Of course, we still make or just trim a lot of our costumes.
(My son, "The Charming & Sly Fox Who Sails the 7 Seas", makes all his costumes by hand.)

[headwench]

An added note -- IF you are purchasing multiple items, many vendors will give you a better price.. Say your entire cast wanted "pants" from a vendor... 5 pair may get you a 5-10% discount, the more ordered the better deal everyone should get.

uh like Sir Trevor, I adore email (but can't answer when on my feet working a faire all weekend)... and hate the phone as I can't refer back to WHAT someone said.. measurements, etc... am O.L.D. and have CRS (can't remember s**t)

I like the idea of trying to call the vendor -- if it was a custom made item, we know those take longer -- or if they are drop shipping from an overseas vendor, you'll know when you talk to them what's going on!

Good luck with your order