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Post by Sir Trevor on Aug 3, 2009 18:10:08 GMT -5
Asking a question posed by one of our "distant and adopted GLMF-ers" from VA: Wanting to get my "far and away voice" heard and I can send duplicate letters - but of the (really long) list on Trevor's site - which contacts would you say would get the most "bang for my buck"?Anyone? I would say probably the best 'bang for the buck' would be the Ashtabula County Commissioners. Trumbull Township does not collect a sales tax. Only property tax. So any monetary arguments would fall on deaf ears. The county though, does collect the sales tax on all the stuff we rennies do. The bed tax from the hotels, motels, etc. The gasoline tax from the gas stations. The sales tax from all the other places we frequent. Also, since it is the county that funds the sherrifs department, and the prosecutors office. They are the ones actually paying the officers for the time spent doing this stuff. And for the prosecutor and the judges to deal with this stuff.
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Post by SwordSchoolGroupie on Aug 3, 2009 18:15:16 GMT -5
They used to have the animal adoption agency come to the faire, hearing impaired awareness weekend, and the Red Cross blood drive. and I know everyone is collecting for RESCUE.
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Post by Simon De Montfort on Aug 3, 2009 18:29:53 GMT -5
By saying not assign would every employee there need a license not just the owner, at .$150.00 per person, this may be more than some of the help would make for their time. And with the long list of laws in this thing, you would need a complete background check and a photograph before a license could be issued. I do not think there would be time to process a licenses before faire started if indeed before faire ended as the law is written. or is that the point
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Post by BeerBlessings on Aug 3, 2009 18:31:00 GMT -5
The Trumbull Transient Vendor Resolution cites Ohio revised Code 505.94 as its basis.. And parts of the resolution are direct from the ORC. Look for yourself: codes.ohio.gov/orc/505.94 Also pay attention to 505.94, Part A, Paragraph 2: "This division does not authorize a board of township trustees to apply a resolution it adopts under this division to any person invited by an owner or tenant to visit the owner’s or tenant’s premises to sell, offer for sale, or solicit orders for future delivery of goods." In this instance, Larry is the owner of the premises. That resolution cannot apply to anyone he invites onto his premises.
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Olive
Upper Class
Posts: 89
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Post by Olive on Aug 3, 2009 21:27:57 GMT -5
Obviously this township resolution is specifically crafted to harm GLMF by targeting its vendors, under the hubris of "protecting the people" of the township. This is a way for the township to try to get the maximum registration fee from every vendor, as well as screen for and eliminate any "undesirables."
The best bang for your buck, in my opinion, is to contact the county prosecutor and commissioners, and then the state of Ohio Attorney General.
How does this Faire harm the people of the township? The trustees might be hard pressed to prove it does. You cannot see any of it from any public road, you cannot hear any of it. It does not impose itself on anyone who wishes to avoid it; it is purely voluntary. I see no garbage along the roads and i am in and around the area constantly. (Compare GLMF to the nearby dragstrip in the neighboring county, which you can HEAR within a large radius, and all those bright lights disrupting wildlife and impacting the astronomical observatories in the area. And it brings in all those "questionable" racer speed demon types from who knows where with their wierd window decals and big trailers that crumble up the local roads (sarcasm), yet Thompson Township in Geauga County as far as I know sees no need to try to stamp it out of existence.)
Apparently the trustees see their authority to do this in the ORC; it will probably have to be settled in litigation. This citation, if it goes to trial, will force a court opinion.
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Post by Capt. Morgan on Aug 3, 2009 21:40:10 GMT -5
How does this Faire harm the people of the township? Oh my dear Olive...you know perfectly well that we are all heathen Pagans who worship the devil, sacrifice children and dance naked under the full moon...and as much as that was typed "tongue in cheek" I fear there is more truth to it than is known. I remember several performer/vendors who were kicked out of one of the Camp Sites a few years back because it was discovered that they were "Faire Folk" and hence not "Christian" enough for the new owners liking and she just as much told them so.
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Post by Suzanne on Aug 3, 2009 22:23:44 GMT -5
(Sigh !) ...
Capt. Morgan--- Yes, ---you are a man who gets right to the Point, I am Afraid. You put it well...
A lot of us ARE Pagan, and Universalists, and Buddists, and Jews and---Christians...
...And, narrow-mined, small-hearted People can make of that what they WILL.
...And, they DO...
... THIS IS AN OLD, OLD TALE that has been running for Thousands of Years.
(See, Re-run at the GLMF)...
SO SAD... SO TRUE...
BUT, WE WILL FIGHT IT...
AGAIN.
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Post by Sir Laurence on Aug 3, 2009 22:45:49 GMT -5
I feel that we as a collective need to organize, as we are, and gain all possible knowledge, read the regulations, before we act upon our emotional desire. After first read of the resolution, I wonder if the application fee, if(?) the application was denied would be returned or would they keep it. Also please note the prohibited times of sales, would that mean I would not be allowed to serve breakfast to the vendors or stay open late to feed the stragglers? I have not read all the ORC's for denying an application, but a quick assessment is if you've been in court for anything you will be denied a certificate of registration.
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Post by BeerBlessings on Aug 3, 2009 23:09:43 GMT -5
According to ORC 505.94, Part A, Paragraph 2: "This division does not authorize a board of township trustees to apply a resolution it adopts under this division to any person invited by an owner or tenant to visit the owner’s or tenant’s premises to sell, offer for sale, or solicit orders for future delivery of goods." (http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/505.94) Meaning, if Larry Rickard invited you on to his property, this Transient Vendor Resolution ( www.trumbulltownship.org/TRANSIENT_VENDOR_RESOLUTION_2009.pdf ) *CANNOT* be applied. Also note that Transient Vendor is defined in ORC 505.94, and repeated as such in the Resolution and in short includes: "“Transient vendor” means any person who opens a temporary place of business for the sale of goods".. Meaning, the PERSON that OPENS the place of business. ... The people in the employ of the person that opened the booth would not be a Transient Vendor by this definition! ... I pray that this distinction is made, and noticed.
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Post by cindy on Aug 3, 2009 23:42:12 GMT -5
Hello all, I did not get a lot of sleep last night. I have done a lot of political work in corrupt places...mostly New Orleans in the 80s. Anyway after the citations were being handed out I spent some time actually READING the ordinance that is sort of quoted by the citations. (one was given to a kind patron who was babysitting dogs) anyway to make a long story short the ordinance was passed in June 25 and is available for the reading at www.trumbulltownship.org under the link listed as "Transient Vendor's License. It is in PDF form. There is also the announcement for next weeks salvo. Ordinance forbids licensees from doing business on weekends between May 1 and Oct 31 as well as most other times. runs 150 and they can refuse to grant one for any cause they darn well please. Plus the fine is not mentioned. This could be "lets give them a citation and when you go to court you are fined so much you can not pay the fine." This means a lot of us merchants could end up in jail over this. It will all depend on the judge. this has been a VERY SLOW SEASON for most of us merchants. I can tell you we did well tihs weekend and for that I am very grateful. This is not a job we do to get rich, I think I know of 3 Rennie millionaires. Most of us live kind of hand and mouth. I tend to work weekends to sell the yummies we MAKE and then take 1/2 of Monday off to recover and then go back to building stock. I cut 12 handflowers today. I spent a fair (no pun intended_)amount of time looking for the ordinance,reading it a few times to see if I could find loopholes. I usually can find a loophole. This piece of @#$% wrote a pretty airtight one. On the other hand I will call the Ohio State Sales tax people to let them know what is going on tomorrow. I have some other plans in mind but plan on waiting a day to really think about them as much as I feel urgency is the key. (what I would really like to do...) Some of the merchants will go to court on the 13 of Aug. As of yet I have not received the expected citation so I am expecting that I will have to stay an additonal week and just hope I can get all the work done for KC in less time. On top of this amazing piece of work as my grandmother would put it is another ordinance that would zone the fest out of commission. he who should not be named believes in serving up a double whammy. Reminds me of a line from Braveheart. yes we have other shows we have to prepare for after this one. Please make your friends aware of this stuff. Larry the faire owner has been dealing with this person for years. He basically said that he would do anything he could to get the faire out of comission this year. ] I have a fear that we may not have a 6 weekend this year depending on how the court works next week. If 2/3 of the vendors are in jail.... \ I have been arrested for my political work in the past. Case got dropped,cop got transferred to a far less nice job but it is STILL no fun. Other form of harrassment Our patrons had an aggressive DUI checkpoint. Now I personally think all who drink to the point of impairment and are uncaring enough to drive....Have your last beer at 4. Keep alive and come back again.... this was a form of selective use of the law however. The idea is to make and scare the patrons (you who feed us)be afraid to come back. Needless to say this is a long post What can we do Make the local media aware Make the local schools aware of the lost income and the amount of school programs that will either be cut or limited due to less taxes entering an already depressed area EMT services get cut as well as police,fire roads you name it. I bet the sleaze that hates what we do may be reading this. I also wonder if they are going to enforce this piece of ?>< on any other people. Anyway its almost 1 am and I need my shower and sleep so I will be good for something tomorrow. We really like this show a lot. Our patrons are great and there are some amazing volunteers here.
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Post by highlandcoo on Aug 4, 2009 0:34:15 GMT -5
Also please note the prohibited times of sales, would that mean I would not be allowed to serve breakfast to the vendors or stay open late to feed the stragglers? I have not read all the ORC's for denying an application, but a quick assessment is if you've been in court for anything you will be denied a certificate of registration. After reading & rereading I agree that under the limitations of this resolution - you are correct & there would be NO sales of any type allowed prior to 10am or after 7pm on allowed days of operation. Another interesting point is that the transient vendor resolution only allows sales for a total 52 days per year - as a resident of Trumbull Township I find this limitation unreasonably restrictive. It also seems to be a direct conflict with the local zoning text which allows fairs & festivals to operate between the hours of 8am & 10pm with no restrictions at all on days or months of operation. I am also wondering how many Avon ladies in the township have applied for their transient vendors registration? This is of course a question I will be posing to the board of trustees as a resident.
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Post by BeerBlessings on Aug 4, 2009 0:40:47 GMT -5
Cindy, it appears that the sobriety check-points really were random, and not intended for Faire-goers.. Apparently, Ashtabula county has had them going on for 6 months now.. So it was a lot of bad timing... And really, if the Trustees had enough pull to arrange those checkpoints.... Horrid thought, that is. The prohibition periods are worded such that transient vendors are only allowed to conduct business on weekends between May 1 and October 31, from 10AM to 7PM. But go take a good look at ORC 505.94 at codes.ohio.gov/orc/505.94 , which is what was cited as giving the Trustees the authority to pass the resolution. And keep in mind that property that the GLMF is held on is owned by Larry Rickard. Btw, are you the one that opened the "temporary place of business"? If not, how do you even fall under the defintion of a Transient Vendor?.. And were you invited by Larry Rickard (the property owner) to the premises? If so, by ORC 505.94 , the resolution cannot be applied to you. These are all very good questions to ask..... If anyone can point out a flaw in that reasoning, please do so.
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Post by Sir Trevor on Aug 4, 2009 4:38:50 GMT -5
Another piece of information. It seems that 2 of these trustees will be up for election this fall. Here are the results from 2005 (I have bolded the 2 winners now in office) The actual results can be found hereTRUMBULL TWP TRUSTEE (elect 2)* LORI ACCETTOLA 70 7.21 CARMEN D CAIMI 144 14.83 WILLIS CLAY 165 16.99 ROBERT J KOVACH 146 15.04 TED OCEPEK 144 14.83 LARRY RICKARD 51 5.25 RON TAMBURRINO 251 25.85 I don't know who will be running this fall. But if we can keep enough attention focused on these guys, maybe the residents will vote them out.
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Post by Lynne (aka dmstessa) on Aug 4, 2009 9:16:25 GMT -5
I have a question. For the vendors that were cited, will they be conducting business this coming weekend? Or were they shut down with the citation? And if they conduct business as usual, are they risking being cited again? Lynne
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Post by highlandcoo on Aug 4, 2009 9:44:31 GMT -5
I can only speak for myself - St Sadie's will be open as usual - soap will be sold and as usual if I'm there outside of regular hours, I will certainly not turn down any customers during the week or before or after cannon. No cease & desist order was issued, so I'll assume it should be business as usual for all vendors. If this means another citation - i say BRING IT ON! ;D
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