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Post by BeerBlessings on Nov 26, 2007 0:24:47 GMT -5
I'm not sure who all watches Battlestar Gallactica still... I know Hank got flustered with all the jumping around during season 3..
Battlestar Gallactica: Razor aired this past Saturday night.
I'm really into BSG, and this felt a little off to me for some reason. Possibly because Admiral Kang is such a hard-ass, but that it's revealed she has a lover (a female cylon to boot, not that she knows that at the time!) and how just doesn't jive with her character....
Quick synopsis: A good portion takes place in flashback.. What the Pegasus and Admiral Kang did in the aftermath of the initial cylon attack on the colonies... However, the main plot takes place in the aftermath of Admiral Kang's death, when Lee Adama is placed in command. Pegasus heads on a search-and-rescue mission to rescue some people from some cylons that have been hiding from everyone (including other cylons) since the first cylon war ended.
Interesting plot point.. Admiral Adama has a personal stake in this. This group of cylons is creating on making a cylon/human hybrid. When he was young, Adama saw these experiments just before the cylon war ended, but was unable to rescue the captives in time.
It makes Admiral Kang absolutely HIDEOUS. What a hard-ass! She shoots her CAG after he refuses to follow an order in good conscience.. There are a lot of ugly things done in the aftermath of the war...
I think the whole point of the "episode" is one giant morality tale. It really comes down to the conversation between father and son Adama in the end about their respective choices, and how neither one is wrong to do.
The foreshadowing however comes from the cylon/human hybrid. He's got this mystic sorta deal going on, and claims that Kara Thrace (Starbuck) is a harbinger of death...
Total speculation, but I'm thinking that Starbuck is #5.
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Nov 26, 2007 4:04:23 GMT -5
BeerBlessing....Yeah, I watched it lat night. (taped it on Sat.) You really had to stay with the story as all the jumping around in the time line could get confusing. Had to rewind a couple of times to make sense of what was going on, and figure out just where the hell we are in the story, past or present.
Admiral Kane (not Kang! he was a Klingon on the original Capt. Kirk Star Trek) is a nut case psychopath! How she ever rose to that rank make me wonder. And to shot her XO on the bridge because he would not go along with a totally STUPID plan and not cause a mutiny among the rest of her officers seems a little far fetched! Maybe on a Klingon ship that shit works, but I have doubts humans would put up with it.
Of the two commanders, Kane and Adama, Adama seems more sensible. Gather up all the humans you can find and RUN for it! Kane's plan is suicidal! She was loosing people and Vipers at an astonishing rate, with no hope of getting resupplied,I mean, even a ship the size of the Pegasus has FINITE resources. When you are out numbered a zillion to one your best course of action is to haul your butt out of there, not go picking fights you have no way of winning!
The one flashback with Adama when he was young was a little confusing. He lands/crashes on this planet, comes across a lab that looks like Dr. Frankenstein has been working there. Finds a door with some people behind it, which he can't get open, runs outside ( to do what, find a pry bar?) is told the war is over and watches a Cylon ship take off. SO! were the people he was trying to rescue in the building, or the ship? The door he was trying to open did not seem like an air lock door to me, I thought they were in the building. So when the rescue ship arrives for you, well now you have help, just go back and get them.
All in all, I'm getting pretty fed up with BSG. I'm glad season 4 will be the last.
HANK.
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Post by BeerBlessings on Nov 26, 2007 18:19:18 GMT -5
After the attack, Kane had a little "Come to Jesus" speech about how they were all screwed, but while they were alive, they were going for payback.
It was sad to see the crew starting the "So say us all" just to appease the Admiral. You could see how many of them didn't want to join in but did out of peer pressure. (Or at least that was my take on it.)
The young Adama was trying to rescue the captives/experiments, but had to get out of there before he too was captured. He got outside to call for backup when the ship took off.. I think they were in the ship itself, and not the building.
The Armistace ws signed, ending the war, and the ship took off with the experiments so that no one could prove what was going on.. Off they go into seclusion to continue their research into making a hybrid. ... And that hybrid ends up being some sort of Seer...
It seems that Adama's tactics were to regroup, evaluate, and pick your fights. However, he also had the new President aboard to sorta answer to. Kane was straight military. Adama had the civilian half of the Colonies to account for/to.
I also think that Kane realized they had lost and just wanted to go out in a blaze of glory rather than being hunted down. Make it a quick death.
I'm just waiting to see what the Four will do now that they know they're cylons. I wonder if any will balk at their reality, or even if they are capable of doing so. (Programming overrides who they think they are..)
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Nov 27, 2007 19:19:43 GMT -5
BB...You and I will have to sit down one day, have a beer or two and discuss this whole BSG thing. The more I see of it the less sense the whole Cylon mythos makes.
As I understand it, the humans invented the Cylons for whatever reason, mow the lawn, work in mines, build spaceships, whatever. Then the Cylons throw a hissie fit and revolt, guess the humans weren't changing their oil often enough. Now then! we have robots today, most work in factories doing things like welding and such, so how your CNC milling machine "revolts" is beyond me, but, let us say the Cylons do, thus causing the "First Cylon War" ( 40 years ago). THEN...They sign an armistice, go their merry way, and no one sees their tin butts for 40 years.
In that 40 year time span, a robot that was designed to build spaceships ( or whatever) decides to make themselves "human" ( Boy, that was some programing the humans wrote into him)
Now, one thing I have noticed about the show is there seems to be NO other life forms besides the Humans and the Cylons. ( unlike Star Trek, Stargate,Farscape, etc, where the galaxy is teeming with other species) So now we have a million, billion, trillion, gazillion cubic light years of empty space, so why don't they just go their own way and not bother each other? But no, they can't leave well enough alone, they have to go and attack the 12 colonies and wipe out 99% of the humans, ( they must of been really pissed about those oil changes) then proceed to chase Adama and the fleet across the galaxy attacking them at random. For What purpose? If it is to kill the remaining 1 % of the population, and Adama, and Starbuck and who knows how many others are really Cylons, well then why not just let them do it? Why fight so hard to fend off the attacks?
Well, that is enough for now, gotta go. We can discuss this more later. HANK.
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Post by Hephzibah on Nov 27, 2007 20:09:24 GMT -5
Reading the posts here and just got to say glad I'm not watching BSG anymore. Sounds like they got even more stupid.
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Post by BeerBlessings on Nov 27, 2007 20:12:19 GMT -5
Heh.. You do have several points in there.
We have seen other life forms. Just not the "aliens" as we are used to them. There are habitable planets that must have other life forms, just no star-faring races. EH, minor point, but yours is still very valid. Personally, I like thinking that they're just out there in some backwoods corner of the universe away from everything else.
There's one thing that I'm missing and you haven't hit on yet Hank..
First, the cylons left much less than 1%; 49,000 and some change if I recall the original introduction correctly... Now we have this group of survivors evading the cylons. I can see the cylons hunting them down to finish the job. They can just be huge perfectionists. Or they can't let it go until their mission is entirely complete.
Well, we think we know about the 13th colony: Earth. We don't really know what it's supposed to be in this entire mythos... So now we have this group of humans following a President that is quoting scripture that most think is entire parable. Off they go in search of this mystical Earth..
And the cylons are trying to race them there. ... WHY THE HECK IS THAT?!?
WHOA! Wait a minute!!!
I'm starting to think that "Earth" is a myth in the BSG universe.
1) Chief was having visions that led the humans to that temple where they found the path to Earth. 2) We know Chief is one of the "Final Five" cylons. 3) All of the "Final Five" cylons that we know have had screwiness in their heads making them hear/see/do certain things. 4) Starbuck was having visions of "the eye".. And it eventually led her to go off into the maelstrom. And die. 5) Starbuck's visions can be compared to the visions Chief had when he found the Temple. 6) The hybrid in Razor refers to Kara Thrace as a harbinger of death..
My thoughts:
Starbuck is the last of the Final Five. After she died in the maelstrom, she was ressurected, and heads back to find Gallactica. She can lead the humans to what she calls Earth. But who knows what's really at the end of that path, other than the fulfillment of the Hybrid's premonitions of Starbuck being a harbinger of death.
But why such an elaborate plot?
The next thing that bothers me is the Hybrid continually saying "All this has happened before, and will happen again. Again. Again..."
The more I think , the more I'm confused of the whole thing. All these visions are just so screwy... Chief. Starbuck. D'Anna (the cylon played by Lucy Lawless who kept committing suicide for the "between-life" experiences)... And now President Roslin, Athena, and Six having the same visions. What the FRACK?!?
Heh. We know cylons and "humans" can have offspring. Perhaps they're ALL cylons stuck in some twisted program, that just keeps repeating itself. I'm thinking Matrix-style here, with the Hybrid seer guy sorta like the Oracle - the one being that knows what's really going on.
Yeah. This requires quite a few beers. Yay for another excuse to drink!
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Post by Sir Trevor on Nov 27, 2007 22:05:55 GMT -5
Yes the story is convoluted.
Yes, the humans created the cylons. The cylons gained sentients and revolted. Somehow when they became sentient beings they decided they needed a god. Trying to become more human is their way of getting closer to their god.
After a 40 year truce, the cylons come back and wipe out most of the humand and begin chasing the remainder of them.
Only we find out that they actually know where the remaining humans are most of the time anyway. They are just following them. Maybe they want the humans to lead them to Earth so they can wipe them all out completely.
We also find out that there are some human form models that aren't working with the other human form models. Though we don't know if they are working against them, or if they are just working towards a different goal.
I think Starbuck being a cylon would be too easy, and too obvious. Just like when so many people thought Baltar was a cylon.
One thing we haven't seen. Some kind of supreme comander that is pulling all the strings with the cylons. Someone had to program them and keep them in line.
As for Razor. I thought it was good eye candy, but the plot was a bit too heavy handed, and the characters were very flat and one dimensional.
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Nov 27, 2007 23:49:03 GMT -5
Another interesting point is the time line: When are these events taking place in the BSG universe as it relates to the "Earth" you and I know? If the Earth we now live on was founded by the "lost tribe" or 13th colony a long, long, long time ago, this might explain some of our myths, like our names for the zodiac signs: Gemini, Capricorn, etc. as these names have been mentioned on the show. Along with names of some of our "old Gods" Athena, Apollo, Zeus.
So! if indeed WE are the 13th colony, won't they be surprised when they show up on our door step and find the group of idiots that presently inhabit the place! I mean, we have no starships with FTL capabilities, hell, we haven't been much beyond the moon with manned flight, so I don't know how much help we are going to be in battling the Cylons. We will just git are asses whooped! Some where over the millenium we apparently went downhill from a group of colonists who once landed on Earth. HANK.
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Post by BeerBlessings on Nov 28, 2007 22:17:57 GMT -5
At least when Gallactica shows up, we'll finally find the WMD's.
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Nov 29, 2007 6:14:46 GMT -5
YEAH!!! They're called the Cylons! 12 planets, remember. If that doesn't qualify as a WMD, I don't know what does! HANK.
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Mar 25, 2009 3:39:50 GMT -5
Well....I found it interesting reading this now that the story is over and we have all the answers. It does bear out my point that the writers had no clue where they were going with this story. Starbuck, a harbinger of death....not hardly! She turns out to be some angel or something who finds "Earth" cuz she can play the piano.
I noticed during the showing of the two hour final episode they showed previews for a new what I'm not sure, a two hour movie, a mini series, a new series? Who knows. I think the title was Caprica, and it took place BEFORE the destruction of the planet by the Cylons. I very much doubt I will even bother to watch it, well maybe, if it is only a two hour movie. But another whole series of the BSG universe with its convoluted nonsensical story lines.....I don't think so.
HANK.
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Post by Sir Trevor on Mar 25, 2009 5:03:23 GMT -5
Caprica is set way back when Adama was young, and the first Cylon war started. Not sure when it is supposed to start.
There is also a new movie coming (I think in the fall) Supposed to be the story from the Cylon perspective. Not sure of the details, just saw the commercials during the finale.
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Mar 25, 2009 9:21:46 GMT -5
That is just what we need another long drawn out convoluted story from the Cylon perspective. Wait, you said movie, not series, right?
I think Clint Eastwood did that not too long ago with a movie he directed depicting the battle of Iwo Jima (I believe) from the viewpoint of the Japanese. Sounds like political correctness crap to me. OH, we HAVE to understand the Cylon point of view, or the toasters will be offended. Or else it is an attempt on the part of the writers guild to keep these idiots employed.
A movie I MIGHT watch. Anything longer then 2 hours would just be a waste of time.
HANK.
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Post by greg532 on Mar 25, 2009 10:02:06 GMT -5
Starbuck, a harbinger of death....not hardly! She turns out to be some angel or something who finds "Earth" cuz she can play the piano. Ah, but she is the harbinger of death. Just not "death" as we see it. "You are the harbinger of death, Kara Thrace. You will bring them all to their end." She did bring them to their end -- Earth, the end of the journey. And their arrival at earth was the death of their civilization and culture. Keep in mind all the religious themes and symbols running throughout the series about resurrection, renewal, and rebirth. Anyone who has ever looked at a tarot deck will know that the "Death" card symbolizes not merely demise, but momentous change. Personally, I'm not sure she was an "angel" either per se. She didn't have any of the knowledge that the Gaius/Caprica visions had about the "master plan." I think she may have been something else entirely -- perhaps a spiritual being on a lower plane of sorts (a "ghost," if you will). Or, very honestly, she may have been a Cylon model the others were completely unaware of. As far as the writers not knowing what they were doing or where they were going: From my own writing experience, I know that writing endings is the hardest damn thing to do. Even for a short story that may be no more than thirty pages long. You might have an ending in mind, but once you finally get there, you realize that it's something different from what you'd planned. So you have to go back and rework the piece so that it all adds up. With writing a television series, you don't have that luxury of revision and rewriting once you've finally come to your conclusion. It's already out there. And writing a story over 6 months is quite different from writing over 6 years. Things change: you have new ideas, new concepts. You have to meet expectations of fans and viewers. Some of the ending was a little disappointing to me (the so-called "mystery" of the opera house). But I really think they did they best they could within the parameters of what they had. SO SAY WE ALL!
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Post by bunbun / Hank on Mar 25, 2009 16:36:20 GMT -5
Greg532...I think you and I will have to agree to disagree on a few points. I can see your point about Starbuck "bringing them to the end" meaning the end of the journey. OK, plausible. As for Starbuck being a "ghost" or an unknown Cylon model, I don't buy it. She was pretty solid to be a ghost. And remember, her Viper got resurrected along with her, now then, the Cylons can do that sort of thing except by that time the resurrection ship had been destroyed. But then again, she was hearing the same music as the chief and Tigh, and the rest of the Cylons, so who knows. What actually happened in the real world was that the actress who plays Starbuck left the show for a job as the villain on the short lived remake of the Bionic Women, so the writers "killed her off," Well, the Bionic Women didn't last very long so now dear Kara needs her job back (gotta pay the rent, ya know) and so the writers came up with this nonsense to explain her reappearance.
As for ending being so hard to write. I ain't buying it. I've read enough books and seen enough movies and TV shows in my life to know it can and has been done on a regular basis. Yes, they might be different then what the writer envisioned when he began the story, but they were still good.
All in all BSG can't hold a candle to SG-1 when it comes to a good story line.
HANK.
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