|
Post by Capt. Morgan on Aug 4, 2009 10:24:27 GMT -5
(Sigh !) ... Capt. Morgan--- Yes, ---you are a man who gets right to the Point, I am Afraid. You put it well... A lot of us ARE Pagan, and Universalists, and Buddists, and Jews and---Christians...And, narrow-mined, small-hearted People can make of that what they WILL...And, they DO... ... THIS IS AN OLD, OLD TALE that has been running for Thousands of Years. (See, Re-run at the GLMF)...SO SAD... SO TRUE...BUT, WE WILL FIGHT IT...AGAIN. (Hmm...I better get me a different picture! LOL!) Yes Suzanne, it is an old song being played on a worn out record (CD for you younger folks!)...and maybe initial impact of the "Godless Hoard" we are/were perceived to be has diminished somewhat...but you get someone who is good at using fear and telling ignorant people that they should be afraid of anyone or anything that is different from them, and this is the result. Sad that something like religion which should unite all mankind is used to divide us...sadder still are those who are lead by these types. To quote "Kay" in "MIB": A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.
|
|
|
Post by cindy on Aug 4, 2009 10:37:16 GMT -5
The citations were not a "cease and desist"but the fear level is pretty darn high right now. My worry is that when the merchants who received their citations go to court that the fines will be so high that none will be able to pay. We should get our citation next weekend. We still will go with our friends to court next week and I have already made plans to stay here an extra week for our court date. I do feel bad for the cops who have to do this stuff. I have had way to much experiance with that kind of thing and the cops we had to deal with hated doing it and let us know and treated us accordingly with respect. The cops are pawns to.
|
|
|
Post by Heather Yanyo on Aug 4, 2009 12:10:26 GMT -5
ok wait...I am reading the transient vendor resolution....
they've got a section in there with prohibition periods...and they've prohibited EVERY day of the year!!!! AND they want us to pay 150.00?
have I read this wrong? SERIOUSLY!
|
|
|
Post by Captain John Stout on Aug 4, 2009 12:31:13 GMT -5
There are two points in the ORC 505-94 here to comment upon. One is the line that Dave already mentioned, that being the line that says
"This division does not authorize a board of township trustees to apply a resolution it adopts under this division to any person invited by an owner or tenant to visit the owner’s or tenant’s premises to sell, offer for sale, or solicit orders for future delivery of goods."
and the other, which I am interested to inquire about which reads
"A board of township trustees may, by resolution, require the registration of all transient vendors within the unincorporated territory of the township"
IS the property that Larry owns in the unincorporated territory? Because I am fairly sure that the signs that denote Trumbull Township delineate the incorporated portion of the township and the fair is inbetween them. is there someone in the County Survey office or an Assayer that can tell us what portion of the township is "unincorporated"?
|
|
|
Post by cindy on Aug 4, 2009 19:28:54 GMT -5
I went to the Ohio Sales tax people in Cleveland since we are staying in Garfield Heights. Discovered that my Transient Vendor's License that I got years ago is still good. I also notified them of what is going on and emailed the State sales tax office in Columbus to let them know about the township ordinance. Down town Cleveland is interesting but if you going, do it in a small car. It took 40 minutes for me to find parking. Lots of slow driving to end up a whole whopping ()block and a half from the Tax folks) Parking is .25 for 20 minutes. Sent 3 letters to the Plain Dealer since I met the pastor of the owner and chief editor of the Plain Dealer. (not intentionally but I am letting contacts from one community benefit the other) I heard an odd version of the westminster chime and had to sniff...well worth it now. By the time I walked the 20 blocks to the Plain Dealer to find out all were out except the nice receptionist my day was almost over. I perfer dealing with reporters in person. Also sent a letter to the Star Beacon in Ashtabula. I do think others should do the same if they are willing. Email is faster than snail mail. We have the Zoning ordinance to deal with next week. I have some other ideas up my very puffy sleeves. I need to hit the thrift stores for slacks and a blazer for the court stuff next week. The straight stuff I brought was for passing the sniff test at the sites of the various toys big toys I love to play.
|
|
|
Post by cindy on Aug 4, 2009 19:29:45 GMT -5
sorry for the repeat. Trevor's cut and paste is different that any I have used
|
|
|
Post by Sir Trevor on Aug 4, 2009 20:41:14 GMT -5
Fixed it for you.
And I have been doing both. Email and snail mail. I just print out the text of my emails then put them in an envelope addressed to the same place.
The email gets there quicker. But I think snail mail carries more weight in situations like this.
|
|
|
Post by Aniska on Aug 5, 2009 9:46:25 GMT -5
Hi All,
I just joined this forum so I could add a little to the discussion. VERY upset at the efforts to intimidate vendors by citing them under this new Township Resolution.
A few people have mentioned how high the fines might be. Revised Code 505.99 states "Whoever violates section 505.374, 505.74, 505.75, 505.76, 505.77, or 505.94 of the Revised Code is guilty of a minor misdemeanor." That means, max fine of $150.00, plus court costs, for each offense. Fine is not imposed until person pleads guilty or is convicted. No jail permitted under that penalty scheme (unless the person fails to show up for court or fails to pay a fine imposed)
The citation won't shut down the booth, nor will a conviction, but they can cite again next weekend if they choose.
It's pretty lame that the citations say "5055.94" instead of 505.94, but generally, when words and numbers conflict, the words prevail as they are written on the citation. Very little luck getting it thrown out based on the section number typo.
I find Section VII, subpart C (rejection of Completed Application) of the Township Resolution to be extremely draconian, as it lists a huge number of offenses, too many to count, a conviciton of which shall be cause for rejection of the application. The offenses listed are as low as public gaming (2915.04), Disorderly Conduct (2917.11), posession of marijuana (2925.11), all of which can be minor misdemeanors (though not always).
Obviously the statutory authority exists for the trustees to enact this resolution, but 505.94 was only added to the Revised Code in 1999, and revised and amended in 2006; as of yet there is ZERO case law interpreting it constitutionality or its application. There IS case law on other transient vendor statutes, but it all relates to "door to door" solicitations, not this sort of situation.
As has already been said a number of times, the vendors who have been cited need to challenge their citations based on the "invited on to owner's premises" clause of 505.94. It would be great if someone challenged the Resolution itself, based on its onerous terms, but that's probably a separate issue for another day.
What galls me most (well, it all galls me!) is that for the vendors to challenge these citations, they're going to have to plead "not guilty" at their arraignment, then get another court date, which would be a month or so down the road. I imagine lots, if not most, of the vendors want to go on to another Faire in September, which could be states away. Then they have to travel back here for a court date or risk getting a warrant for failing to appear.
It would be great to have the cites thrown out at the arraignment on the 13th, but that would take some quick attorney work and a lot of luck (courts never seem to throw stuff out at the arraignment even if it makes huge sense to do so.)
Well, it seems as if my post has just degenerated to venting, so I'll sign off now. Hope at least some of it is useful to someone.
|
|
|
Post by Athena on Aug 5, 2009 10:52:07 GMT -5
The citation won't shut down the booth, nor will a conviction, but they can cite again next weekend if they choose. What galls me most (well, it all galls me!) is that for the vendors to challenge these citations, they're going to have to plead "not guilty" at their arraignment, then get another court date, which would be a month or so down the road. I imagine lots, if not most, of the vendors want to go on to another Faire in September, which could be states away. Then they have to travel back here for a court date or risk getting a warrant for failing to appear. This really makes me wonder. If a vendor is going through all of this hassle, they're probably not too keen about returning to GLMF in the future. I've already heard talk of former vendors who are no longer at the faire because of all the troubles with the trustees. Think about the way news spreads around the circuit...now, if you're a vendor looking to add a faire to your schedule, you'd probably think twice about going to one where the local politicians are making things difficult. They can't shut down the faire this year, and didn't succeed in the past, so they're using fear and intimidation to drive businesses away. What's next, will they demand that the performers have to have permits, a la street performers in large cities? Will they send in the cops to enforce that? This is why it's so important to VOTE. Time to bring in some new blood to the Trumbull Township Board of Trustees.
|
|
|
Post by BeerBlessings on Aug 5, 2009 12:19:51 GMT -5
Oh, I want to see "Little Suzy's Lemonade Stand" put up o on 534, with a sign "Closed because I do not have $150 for a Transient Vendor's License"
Anyone have yard space to donate?? *GRIN*
|
|
|
Post by Capt. Morgan on Aug 5, 2009 12:27:45 GMT -5
*snerk*
|
|
|
Post by cindy on Aug 5, 2009 16:31:16 GMT -5
Hello all,
A reporter from the Plain Dealer called me and he wants me to forward contact info on all who got citations. My shop is on the back end of faire so we did not get one. Anyone willing to talk to the plain dealer email me at hunyface@aol.com...I want to get this puppy moving so please respond by tonight.
|
|
|
Post by highlandcoo on Aug 5, 2009 20:00:34 GMT -5
We have space for a lemonade stand - we're not on 534, but still in the township Maybe we can sell some soap too!
|
|
|
Post by Athena on Aug 5, 2009 20:07:43 GMT -5
Hello all, A reporter from the Plain Dealer called me and he wants me to forward contact info on all who got citations. My shop is on the back end of faire so we did not get one. Anyone willing to talk to the plain dealer email me at hunyface@aol.com...I want to get this puppy moving so please respond by tonight. There's nothing quite like a barrage of not-so-positive publicity to make politicians sweat!
|
|
|
Post by BeerBlessings on Aug 6, 2009 0:06:55 GMT -5
How many road-side vegetable stands are getting hit by this? How many will later if it's not stopped?
Earlier today I saw a sign on Barret Rd saying "Fresh Veg's". I wonder if they have their Transient Vendor's License, or if they've even heard of the resolution... I should go buy some stuff from them. Help the local economy and all that.
|
|